england. north london specifically. they're hitting a 4:00 a.m. hour. this is four hours into the incident there and the information as has been said so far not much changed in the last three hours. what we do know is this, the police are saying and they have not said more than this, specifically, one vehicle, a vehicle colliding with pedestrians. they have gone on to say that they have then deployed officers which we've seen in these pictures and in live pictures throughout this evening. they are saying there are a number of casualties. we don't know whether that number is single or double digits. we have seen pictures and video of those who appear to have been injured. we do not know the status, where they have gone. although we are monitoring all of the other support services such as the fire bring gades, london ambulance service as well. there has been one person arrested. we don't know motive. we don't know any of the demographic information if you will of that person arrested and they continue to look for more

data. back to these live pictures. back to lucy kafanov who is right there very close to where that police cordon is, not too many hundred feet away from where the scene of the crime is because on the left-hand side of the korean right now we're seeing those pictures that is keeping individuals whether residents or curiosity away from what is an area close to the kinsbury park area and kinsbury park mosque. what are you learning and what would you say is changed in the last two hours? >> reporter: well, richard, i wod y that more and more people arrive to the scene. there's growing frustration from some of the people who are here about the lack of concrete information from the authorities about what exactly it was that took place here a few hours ago. this incident took place at about 12:20 p.m. -- a.m. local time in the early hours of the morning just after the midnight

prayers. a van, a vehicle of some sort rammed into a crowd of pedestrians. eyewitness reports -- eyewitnesses that i spoke to say they saw four or five people on the ground. one of them heavily injured. blood everywhere this eyewitness described to me. when i asked the eyewitness whether he believed the attack was deliberate he said yes. he said that he saw a man in his late 50s, white, arrested by the police and taken in. now this is just one eyewitness. that does not make it a fact. the authorities, the police, the met police did confirm they raeftd one individual and several people were injured. about 30, 40 minutes ago we saw a crowd of women escorted out from behind the police lines. the area closer to where the attack took place, there was a coffee shop there, one of the locals told me, but it's hard to see in that direction, richard, because i'll just describe to

you what i see behind this police line, three large met police vans blocking the view. we see flashing lights. this is beneath the finsbury park overground metro station, the train station here. again, a growing crowd. this would have been a very quiet time, a special time just after the midnight prayers where people would have been returning home to break thur ram dan fast, ram adan being the holy muslim holiday. this attack also taking place at a difficult time for this country, three terrorist attacks in as many months, that deadly fire in north kensington in that area and growing frustration by the people and residents of certainly london but also across the country with these incidents -- one man told me, it just feels like we can't get a break, richard and that is the thing that we're hearing from quite a few people here. >> lucy, we have not had any

confirmed reports if i'm correct or confirmed sources that we understand whether it's intentional or not, nor have there been any reports that this is terror related. does that still stand true? >> reporter: that still stands true and of course the authorities are going to be very careful in jumping to these kinds of conclusions largely because of the public mood here on the ground. there's been so much frustration over the incidents that have been taken place preceding this. they're not going to want to put out that kind of information until they can be certain that it is accurate. this is still under investigation. there are still police officers on the scene, ambulances have been on the scene. they ferried away some of those injured. they'll be treating this very carefully and very slowly and keep in mind, with the manchester attack as one example, the way we were getting all that early information wasn't from the actual authorities, it wasn't from the met police. a lot of it was coming from leaks from u.s. officials who were getting it from their

counter parts. if the authorities here have their way there will be very cautious with what information they reveal especially in light of the public mood, richard. >> what is noteworthy as you have mentioned was the crowd that has arrived around you smaller at first, larger than later on, more energetic shall we say, potentially emotional as the hours went by. you were on the scene there and you saw that sort of arc of the energy level. where does that stand now and what was causing this energy and if you can describe what were some of the back and forths? >> reporter: and this is information -- this is the sentiment of the people that had en gathedround me as i was, you know, doing these live shots with ari, but people were basically frustrated that we don't know again -- the authorities have not said what this incident was. we know there was a van that had hit several people, that several people are injured. the suspicion by some of the

locals is this may have been a terror incident because some eyewitnesses said they did not see this van slow down so people are very frustrated if it does turn out to be the case, they want the authorities to label it as such. if there was -- this is based again on what the people here are saying but from their perspective, if there was a muslim terrorist committing an act of crime of some sort, that is quickly labeled a terrorism so they do not want to see a double standard if the reverse were to be the case. but that jumping the gun by 20 steps here. the authorities have not labeled this incident as such but based on the limited information that we've had come out so far, it does not appear to be a traffic incident, potentially something worse and the met police did say they were responding to what they called a serious incident so something that is currently under investigation, richard. >> i know when you got there you were trying to look past those three vans and for our viewer we

have a corner of that view on the left-hand side of the screen of one of the vans. there are two that sit to the left of that picture for our viewers who are seeing that police van on your left-hand side of the picture. if you have that view and you're looking down that road, that is where the scene of the crime is. were you able to glean anything from what was happening way down this block at the scene of the crime as you've been saying before, maybe a couple hundred feet away? >> reporter: not really. it's difficult for me to see right now. there's flashing light. three very large police vans. i apologize to our viewers for jumping out of the shot. i'm trying to see down the road. it does appear to be quite calm there. we were actually on the other side of this road just a few blocks down where there was also another line of police officers but that police line was so far away from the actual location that it was quite difficult to

see and i -- this is speculation here but i don't think it's a coincidence that those three large police vans are placed where they are. i think it's trying to give the authorities the investigators on the ground some privacy to do their work and to get to the victims. >> what was that activity like -- make that comparison for me. we have good pictures where you are now, you said you're on the other end of the road where they had a blockade cordon? what was like there that end of the scene? >> reporter: well, on both ends -- the other end there was fewer people but that is where i was able to speak to some of the shaken eyewitnesses asian lot of locals trying to get information. people were listening to the radios on their phone, people were looking on social media, desperate for any facts they could glean. a larger crowd here, again this is a bigger intersection where i was on the other side. that was more of a residential area but here buses are still

moving past us, cars are still moving past us, the sun is slowly rising, so shops will begin to open. because the mosque is not the so far away, people were up and awake at a time when people are normally sleeping because it was that evening prayer before the meal which is the basically when they break their fast and that is why more people may have been out and about at this late hour on this sunday than usual, richard. that is why we see people here. word spreads quickly about incidences like this especially in a city that has just experienced both a terror attack and a deadly fire. a lot of frustration and anger here and a lot of sadness about what is happening to this country. again, no label on this particular incident but it's not welcome news on the heels of everything that's happened so far. >> i got to let you go, right over your shoulder are the london metropolitan police and you were reporting for me in terms of what the pedestrians,

the residents were saying. what is law enforcement been saying to them as they approach -- approach this crowd? is the crowd gets more energetic? have they been saying anything to them? >> reporter: you can see they're stance behind me. the authorities here have been very calm, very quiet. they're trying not to excite the crowd. they're trying to keep the peace. they're basically have been doing what you see behind my shoulder which is standing there looking over and attending to the scene. >> okay. i know you have to get out there and do news gathering. we'll stop by with you later. i know you're standing by for us. i appreciate that. lucy kafanov, right on that. also coming in to us, theresa may, prime minister, tweeting this as she reacts to what is a new day saying quote, all my thoughts are with those who have been injured. their loved ones and the emergency services on the scene. that statement just coming out

from the british prime minister, theresa may and her office. this as we get close to that 4:43 sunrise time. another day where the sunrises and for those who went to sleep at 11:00 p.m., those who went to sleep at 10:00 p.m. or 11:30 as many did because mondays a workday, they're weighing up on this monday if they're turning on the tv screens right now as a sunrises in about a half an hour to another headline they don't want to hear about. another headline where there's still a of questions that remain aunsed with very few facts at the moment confirmed but understandably so as law enforcement and all of their teams are deployed and are moving as typically as they have in very well practiced manners as we have seen unfortunately in recent months there in london. i want to bring in malcolm nance

who's been with us all evening. when you and i were talking, jim kavanagh is with us instead as we have been talking over the last hour and a half. we don't see a lot of progress. you were listening to what lucy was describing on the scene itself. still a lot of energy there, but not a lot of movement. >> well, it's right. i think they're holding that scene likely a homicide scene, richard, because they got to process it. day light always helps that as well. they're just a few hours to day light. they're going to want to go over that very slowly especially if they have fatalities. that's why they're keeping such a police presence there i would say and they're not just clearing the scene. there is some pictures, you know, in the international media and video of a man being arrested at the scene early on and put in the back of a police wagon. so they have announced one arrest and they'll be

interrogating that person and clearly know scotland yard detectives clearly know by now who he is and what was going on there and what explanation he gives and what are his connections and whether he's intoxicated or whether he had a seizure or whether he's a terrorist internationally based. they already have a handle on that. and the leadership is going to have to come out and start telling the community something here, you know, in the early morning hours because people are going to want to know, who is this guy that ran over seven citizens, you know, on the sidewalk last night. they're going to want to know something about it, but the police right now, richard, they can maybe get ahead of anything if they get information from him where they might want to search a home or car or find associates or was there anybody else with him. we don't even know that. a vehicle, a van reportedly a van can have more than one

occupant and it's possible there were other occupants and the crowd of confusion, the police could still be looking for others. we don't even have that answer just yet. so there's some things that the detectives are still doing. they have a lot of answers that we don't have but our counterintelligence people are looking at it as well so see if there's anything in there for them. >> jim, two things. first off, are you surprised we don't have much different than when you and i were talking at the beginning of this about three hours ago and number two, those vans that were lined up when we were talking last, they had repositioned them -- as a form of potential blockade if you will and in case the crowd got larger or is it to keep the crime scene, if you will, more private as they undertake certain processes? >> i think a little bit of both. they just want to have a private crime scene if they have some fatalities there and they want to process it as away from prieg

eyes of any neighbors or cameras. they want to have a secure crime scene. sometimes you'll see officers put up a tent, sometimes they use vehicles. they just want to keep that line about a block back so they can have freedom to work and not be overheard by their comments between each other and have anybody see the particular evidence. that's pretty normal. i think they've swiftly moved to lock it down, hold it tight. the fact that they're keeping it this late into the morning i would say they probably want to do more work at the first light. cause it was just easier to find evidencend tngs you might want to look at. they're going to want to measure tire marks and places where victims were laying and any kind of impacts where the van was, they want to do a crime scene sketch. crime scene foren sick mapping now using layers it's all done very methodically so if you have

a nice wide scene that's secure and day light you can do a better job. the big message here is that they're putting a lot of effort into it and i think that's good to do and it shows that the london metropolitan police are putting a lot of emphasize on the case. it's important to them. they're showing the muslim community it is important to them. those are all good messages. so let's find out who this guy is. let's have a thorough investigation. let's treat it like we treated every other one. if you're killed at westminster or killed in the neighborhood in london, you should get the same treatment by the police and they're getting it tonight. so i'm glad of that. so it's going to depend on what the leaders come out and say that's going to be the next big thing for us. >> as eve been watching these pictures, they've been coming in from various sources. one picture that you were talking, was what appeared to be a blue cloth or blue draping

over an individual, although again we don't know any details here as we've been watching this, only that there are a number of casualties, the definition -- the details around what that might be unknown but we're only really getting the information from what we surmise. that picture right there on the lower right hand side of what happened, the chaos that happened at right after midnight there on site, i want to go to naveed and build off what jim was saying here about the community itself and what it's made of, how it's constituted and i was looking through -- naveed unfortunately we're having some technical difficulties so i will go back to you on this then, jim. you were alluding to the community and i was going through the census for that particular ward, that community, that neighborhood.

it's from 2011, that's the latest i was able to find at least in my quick look, but the government census showed for kinsbury park is what you see here for the most part is sort of like the brooklyn, new york, if you will potentially. very young,s to and 30s. young families described by some rental sites as being fun with the pubs, yet having graffiti, bit rough in some places, cool if you will, quote/unquote, in others. so that brooklyn, new york of old that was sort of the parallel to what potentially this neighborhood is at least that's the way one or two rental sites were describe tg and it's small as well here, jim. about 14,000 people in this one ward and the ethnic breakdown it's two-thirds white and

one-third minority. the latest change in recent years that they were remarking in the census was a larger number of asians and mostly south asian is normally what that means in vernacular when using the word asian in the uk and an increase in a number of black, 18% of that particular ward and crime was trending down at least from the last census that i looked at from 2011. so that complexity of this neighborhood gives us a sense of what they're seeing, what they're worried about and you were talking about getting the services as they said about 30 minutes north o london bridge, 30 minutes north of big ben potentially one of those quote/unquote, bedroom communities if you were to work downtown and you might drive back home to north london? >> right. when you're in the law

enforcement service you want to make sure that you're treating everybody the same. you're giving the person in the neighborhood that's far out or may not have as much economic advantage putting the same emphasis on the case there that you would in another part of the city. i think we're seeing that here and that's a good message. but, yes, you're describing richard, exactly, an international community and a major city of the world. brooklyn, london, many cities, paris, we have these -- they're just great international communities, people from all over come there, young people. they're trying to make their way in life. some of the buildings are old because they've been there a long time and sometimes it's going to be more affordable to work in the city center. that's a demographic we can describe in many cities of the world and so it's going to be interesting to see how this crime fits in to that millu. is it a simple answer? it could be a drunk driver.

it could be an accident. or is it targeted? and is that -- if it is targeted, you know, what's the motive behind that targeting, international, internationally inspired or even a domestic extremist because of all the temple of the killing that's been going on there, someone overreacts and starts attacking the wrong people and doesn't let justice take its course and wants to hurt or kill others, maybe because how they appear or how they think they should be or whatever motive they assign in their mind to all muslims. so that's an evil hate and bigoted thing that permeates peoples' minds. i don't think it can be ruled out. it's a possibility and the metropolitan police have those answers because they have the guy nand. they have him sitting in the interrogation room and he's talking. he's not a guy that's going to sit there and not talk. this is the kind of guy when you walk up on him, some of these

killers and these vicious attacks, they're telling you why they did it. they're telling you, it's spilling all out of them and if there was, in fact, an intentional act and they'll have those answers. i think they will have those answers and they'll have those answers in the morning so it's important how they handle it with the community. right now, i'm giving them an a plus in seeing all those metropolitan officers there, holding the crime scene, they'll work it like it was a major person that was injured or a government official or whoever somebody sees it as a rich lord, they'll handle this way too. >> this as we see sunrise. it's getting brighter there not too far from the scene of the crime there on that line 4:43 more or less is when sunrise officially will be happening

there and as i was saying earlier, if you went to bed early in london on a sunday night as a lot of people do to get up early to go to work, you've got this on your local stations. you've got this on the bbc. you've got this on any station that you'll be watching and asking the same questions that jim kavanagh is trying to offer some perspective upon, at least one person taken into custody, they're saying one person is taking into custody. we don't know if there's more in consideration. all we know is what they've told us, the london metropolitan police. they had put out this information about three hours ago. they have not put out any more data since. they've not changed at all in terms of the posts on their website, nor on the twitter account. what has comout sin then, though, has been from the chairman of the finsbury park mosque which is just right down that road believed to be very close to the scene of the crime itself and the chairman of that mosque saying, our thoughts and

prayers with those who got injured and effected by this cowardly attack. many casualties in the floor. now does that mean that it is on the prayer floor in this mosque or does it mean on the floor in be front. we don't know any of these situations but potentially was brought up by those who were hurt may have been brought in as a triage area. that is also possible. lucy kavanagh is very close to this location, finsbury park mosque and lucy, what are you seeing now? >> reporter: actually the crowd has -- never mind, they dissipated somewhat but more people have gathered behind me but we are still on location about 200 yards or so from where this vehicle struck a group of pedestrians to my right. the dawn is rising here. authorities still not labelling this incident but we did hear

from the uk counter terrorism police that say they are looking into the incident. this is according to british media. theresa may, the prime minister, says that she has been informed about the crash in north london where i'm standing right now. she described the crash early on monday morning as a quote terrible incident saying that all of her thoughts are with the people who had been injured. we don't know the exact number of injured. one of the eyewitnesses i spoke to said he saw four, maybe five on the individual on the ground. at least one of them bleeding heavily but no confirmation from the authorities. this is still very much an active scene, an active investigation and an ongoing incident, richard. >> we've been seeing some of those pictures of not only the london metropolitan police, the fire brigade, london ambulance services deployed in that area and unfortunately pictures of what seem to be injuries or casualties that have been

reported. have you seen any movement from the ambulance services, the fire brigade itself? >> reporter: not at this hour. we did see some of the vans moving around but no more fire brigades here where i'm standing and no ambulances here where i'm standing. this incident taking place just after midnight. it is now nearly four hours after that. those ambulances if they had any injured people would have been long gone by this hour, richard. >> yeah. according to the ambulance services it sounds like they got a five minute jump which is so important in these situations but moving very quickly. lucy, stand by if you can. i'll go to steve clemmens, msnbc analyst. the history of the mosque which is not necessarily well-known by folks on this side of the pond as we like to say, the mosque itself was opened in 1990.

it would then move into its current building in 1994, but it became associated with radical islam around 2000. this is the way the telegraph was putting together a timeline and it became famous for this unfortunate incident as the home of a radical extremist. there was also the shoe bomber richard reed who was also attending. there's al qaeda terrorist, also attending this mosque but then it was 9/11 it was the raechtd of the richard reed and this mosque became one of those if you'll hero stories and it became a symbol of a reformed mosque along the way and they had to physically evict and his people if you will and the attendance then blossomed into a

ceer for muslim british to go to. friday prirz for instance, if they were to count around a thousand back when it was again that quote/unquote, radical islam period for the mosque. it only had 50 or 60 people coming and this as the demographics have certainly changed in that area. i was mentioning this earlier. very young, 20s and 30s. they had a youth outreach along the way. this is certainly personal for this long-term -- long time he had da fis and resident of this neighborhood, this finsbury park mosque and that's the complexity that is sort of been the story in the background and the fabric as you and i have talked. unfortunately about london bridge not so long ago. >> i think you've described it beautifully. i think finsbury is one of those

places that was a model and was really a beacon of hope for areas in the uk but other places that had been seen as basis of extremist rhetoric. it became something else. it's not just extremist rhetoric that's part of this. part of the challenge inside the uk has been to try to assimilate and create bridges between parts of british society that don't talk to one another, that don't engage one another, that give youth and some of these affected communities particularly the muslim community inside the uk a sense that they matter too. i think in my experience and you and i have talked about it many times before 9/11, during 9/11, during a lot of the stress and tension we have in the middle east but also within various western societies with their muslim populations, my muslim

friends tell me they have a sense that their lives don't matter as much as other lives. i think it places like this mosque that we able to transform themselves into hubs of moderation, inclusion, new opportunities for youth have been extremely important. i'll tell you one thing richard that does bother me this, however, but it's been noticeable as i've been watching the social media traffic. when you and i were on very, very late at night after the london bridge attacks, president trump had tweeted condolences and support from the united states very, very early in that evening. he went on to tweet and politicize some that have commentary but it's in this kind of case where you have so many muslim victims in an attack that i wish that we saw the president of the united states reaching out and saying, you know, we support you now as well.

condolences to those victims but both an official statement and from the president of the united states there have been no tweets or official statements from the white house on this incident. >> and steve it could be as you know as well, as we've been following the confirmed information coming from the metropolitan police, we don't have a lot of data. we don't have a lot of difference from the -- >> which is very different remember than london. because in london bridge case, while they didn't release the name, the names of the traitors, there was much more back and forth even with general information, even in just terms of making sure we had a sense of their presence. tonight it's the one difference i had with jim kavanagh who i think rightly gives the folks that we've been seeing this an a plus but the major difference with the london attack is just an absence of communication from anyone. that sent media player is not here and while he didn't give us

as much information, we knew he was there and we knew he was serious, we knew he was straightforward in trying to work with the media and press. that doesn't seem to be in place in this incident. >> not in this latest one. for those just joining us here, i do want to get you updated. 11:30. this is very -- this is what we know. what we also know is that you've seen those pictures, officers

were on scene. you can see in some of these pictures as well, that little red dot is where the incident is. there are a number of casualties being worked on. they were being worked on at the scene. we were told this by the london metropolitan police. they also were saying and reporting that there's been one person arrested. that is all that they have confirmed from the london metropolitan police and now that we are about a four hours after the first call came in to the police there, the progress of information that steve clemens was alluding to, we have not seen more data come out. this is different than previous incidents, london bridge, for instance, we did not -- we were able to get faster pace of information information, if you will, we see pictures like this of what the

casualty might be. no confirmed reports of this as terror related as of yet. we have had no confirmed reports that this is intentional as of yet. london witness telling our nbc news producers on the ground there and reporters that three people were in the van, two ran away. this is not been indepennt confirmed by nbc news. this is what a witness has been telling , that there is a lot of different full pieces of information that are out there which is common in these breaking news situations that are put out in various distribution challenges social media being one that is quite common and an indicator in the past but we have not confirmed any of those pieces of data. steve clemens, you're still with us, i want to finish and round out the conversation but i wanted to get that update for those just joining us. we don't have any confirmation

that this is intentional. we don't have any confirmation yet that this is terror related. yet, we do know because of the prayers just finishing when this van collided with pedestrians, that it is most likely, this included those who had prayed and were there for night prayers at the mosque and therefore many of those who have been expressing their concern on the ground as our lucy kafanov was reporting earlier, and via social media, those who are there and part of this quote/unquote, reform mosque and this icon of being able to become reformed have said, if this is proven to be an intentional attack, they should consider the use of the word terror as well. this can definitely fall both ways if and when we get information to confirm that, steve. >> you're absolutely right. i think everyone has been

judicious and careful in not getting ahead and talking about what may have -- so little information but if you take a scan of the social media right now, there is a fur ver that you can feel building already jumping to that conclusion and saying this has to be called a terror attack on us. and meaning, meaning british muslims so that is why this is dicey, one of the reaso i may be dicey for authorities and i think that it is an interesting challenge when you have an increasingly toxic set of conditions. you -- i find the british and how they responded in these previous attacks so impressive that this is a resilient society and more vigilant society but tensions are rising. this muslim community feels burdened with some of what has

happened and now if they're being attacked, this could possibly open up new fishures inside british society. i hope not. already in the social media side of it you can get a sense that there is very, very hawkeyed observations of how this is going to be framed, whether or not they're going to be -- whether it would be divergence in framing giving how other incidents are framed and how i think some in british society have used this to, you know, essentially blame the muslim community. someone like donald trump did in his last tweets and talking about his immigration ban in that but that sense that part of british society bears the burden of previous attacks they'll be looking potentially to make sure that justice is served and the

framing of this is appropriate. >> whichever way this lands, what you say is reflective, indicative of the nuances of the fabric of what this london, this british backdrop is on what this breaking story is at this hour, at 4:37 in the morning. i want to play a little bit from one witness told our -- told our team. let's listen to that. >> there are three people actually in the van. >> there were three people? >> three people in th van. one is being catched by the police, they catch him and two actually they run away. >> i was mentioning this data point earlier from the witness. nbc news unable to independently confirm that and as such a lot of folks, including other news organizations and those on the ground. those who are law enforcement are gathering such accounts trying to put together piece

together what may have happened. in fact, in the last london metropolitan police statement they said inquiries continue and that goes with individuals like that. naveed contributor is with us here. where are we in the arc of this story and we've all been careful about what we know and what we don't know. >> reporter: i think that's a very important point, richard. i go to this tell-tale sign of the language of the police officers on the scene that you're showing with the live shots and clearly this is very different. to me whatever the story was it seems to be that they believe. the second thing that i go back to is interesting development here, with the nypd saying about

beefing up the securities around mosque. the nypd has been aggressive and forward in their intelligence collection, specifically after september 11th. they actually took nypd officers and put them in different police departments around the world. back to new york city to help detect potential and urgent threats. i think it's a very interesting thing. one would have to assume that the nypd has a big relationshi with the met. a relationship that has bee impacted directly. so i think that to be -- i think that cannot stand -- the nypd did this terror attack against the mosque -- so i think that

is -- this is probably something -- it seems that -- previous attacks -- suspect was, in fact, taken into custody, a lot of this is very different from previous attacks across europe. there's one similarity, it seems there's a lot of differences. it's important to remember as we watch this unfold. >> naveed, it sounds like we're having some technical difficulty. what we'll do is maybe perhaps move around to a space where the connection is better. we'll put you on standby for a second. i'll go over to jim kavanagh and build on what naveed was saying there. nypd as they were saying local officers and we got that note about an hour or two about two

hours ago that that was going to be the case and he was as you probably heard there jim and you and i spoke about this during the london bridge incident and terror attack and that is that the nypd putting their officers in key hot spots around the world where there were concerns or spaces where those who might insight terror attacks or terrorist plans so that they could be on the front line, if you will, and to take home the best practices and this is why many have lauded and called the nypd the most prepared for such incidents that were -- that are terror related. this one we do not know if it is. there's been no confirmed report of that as of yet. the nypd nevertheless taking the steps here in protecting mosques in the united states right now and that is really become jim a best practice, hasn't it?

>> i think it's smart money. it's the best practice. it really doesn't tell us the motive of any attacker. i think the commanders at nypd, somebody here could act against a mosque or muslim community whether they have information from inside the met of what the motive is either way or even if it was just a drunk, somebody here could still act out and think that they should attack a mosque or someone in the muslim community so the nypd is nimble and they got on it pretty quick. i don't know how much we can read into that. i don't know if we can read into that that means it's internationally directed or inspired terrorism. i don't know we can quite do that yet. i think, you know, just building on what steve clemen said, i think he was right about what the police have to say and they're pretty closed mouth now. usually they're slower than u.s. authorities but usually by now

we've heard something. i can only think the last witness you had up there, richard, he said it directly. this is what he saw. whether or not that holds true that two other men were in the van, if that's true, you know, the police officers in london are looking for those two men and one of the reasons they may not be freely speaking at the moment is they're trying to find out where they are, trying to get to them, trying to locate them before they make a public statement. so i do agree that their public statements have to balance with what we're seeing on the camera. i think what we're seeing on the camera is a positive message to the community, that this crime is important to the police force, we'll put resources on it. look at all these officers here. they may not be intending to send that message but that message is a positive message what you see in the picture are resources are here, our effort is here. we're treating this as an important case. what they came out and say to

the community and not just the muslim community but all londoners is, this is what happened, these are the facts and this is what you need to know and this is the help we need. they can't wait too long because, you know, tempers rise and rumors travel so it's better to get some information out early. i think that there may be some efforts to locate and apprehend other players if that's true that there was others in the van and that may be causing some of that delay. if they come out with a strong message and that strong message backs up their visual message that we're looking at right here that's being seen no doubt all over london, then i think they're going a long way to be doing the right way and policing and capturing the bad guys from whatever side they come and bringing them before the old bailey and let them stand the dock. so they can do the best they can. they can't turn back the clock on the crime. they can't bring back any

fatalities or injuries but they can just do the best job that any force can do. they're still there doing it and let's hope they can follow in with that message like steve directed and i agree with that point. >> i want to play more from that witness that was stating what he saw p. we'll take a listen to that real fast. >> i was outside the mosque like about two minutes away from the mosque and we were sitting with -- in the coffee shop when we hear somebody reporting an accident and he say like a van or a just a drive through the people like in the mosque. so we just get up and run out, run to the mosque and when we come here we see the police, we see lots of ambulance, too many police officer and everything and we see -- i see some of the ambulance taken the people -- >> let's go to lucy kafanov there on the ground for us and

lucy, the folks that are there many of which are local residents, you're saying how they were quite upset earlier. obviously their feeling this is whatever it is, this is an attack on my community, i may know some of these people personally, i live here and the 14,000 people that compromise kinsbury park which is where you're at, no doubt like any community, close. >> reporter: that's right. we actually just got a new statement in from the muslim council of britain which is condemning this incident, the secretary general of this group has said during the night ordinary british citizens were sat upon going about their lives completing their evening night worship. my prayers are with the victims and families. it appears from eyewitness accounts that the perpetrator was motivated by islamaphobia.

there has been several incidents of islamaphobia and this was the most violent and i quote manifestation to date. that sort of summarizes some of the sentiment here on the street. we are waiting for an update from the authorities who have not said that this was a deliberately motivated attack yet, they have not labeled this an act of terrorism yet. we did hear from prime minister theresa may who did call this a terrible incident and said that her thoughts and prayers are with those who have been injured by that van. what we know so far, what's confirmable so far as far as what the authorities told us is at about 12:20 a.m. local time a white van plowed into a crowd of people injuring several pedestrians. we know that ambulances were dispatched to the scene, that the police were on scene. most of the medical vans, the ambulances are gone now. the police are still here. we know that one man is in custody built that is all that we know from the authorities so far.

they are investigating this incident. this is very much a developing situation, richard. >> the chairman of the mosque that is not too far away from you also expressed condoll lens and well wishes for those who were hurt on that mosque and whatt is faced in the past, it is had vandalism that it was anti-muslim over it's 27 year history and so for them, when they see this happen -- >> there's a fire bombing attempt on that -- i apologize for interrupting. in 2015 there was an attempted fire bombing of that mosque, the finsbury park mosque. that incident did not go through but there was an attempt at fire bombing and that was very tense time for the community. so this is not the first time this area was target, so yes, this is a very sensitive incident for this community. we're not sure that the mosque itself was the target in this

incident. we know that this van plowed into a crowd of people, the reason why they were out at 12:20 a.m. local time was because evening prayers wrapped up but this is going to stir a lot of number of old emotions, richard. >> have you been a able to speak to any of those who were attending the mosque and who were there when this incident had happened? i understand it is -- well, i should not say popular, but well attended on friday prayers, and about 1,000 at the end, and that is a pretty big number. >> we have spoken to some people who had been inside of the mosque, and eyewitnesses who arrived to the scene after this car, this van plowed into the civilians, and again, it is a hectic situation that we had to move around quite a bit, and so no details about what exactly it is that transpire and quite difficult to continue these

conversations, and again as people move about, and police move about, and we have been parked here in this location, and the police line behind me, and there is a large crowd that we were speaking earlier, and the numbers were going up and down, and also, it is obvious to the viewers that the sun is up, and the people are going to be heading to work quite soon, and so it is a monday, and even though there are not any concrete answers about what is it that took place, life does go on, and, so people are going to get on with the day as they wait for answers, and updates from the police, richard. >> and thank you, lucy kafanov, on site and not far from the scene of the crime, and 100 feet away. thank you so much. naveed jamali is rejoining us, and we are in the middle of ramadan as i described and they had prayers around midnight, and just finishing and about to breakfast and then this happens,

and of note, you know, we are, it is with within the last ten-day period of ramadan and just as we are heading to the end of june, and time that is going to be very much for those who are practicing watch very closely these last ten days. >> absolutely. i mean, that is a very important part, richard, and it is important to remember the context and obviously, the uk is reeling from the triggers of attack, and mi-5 is under severe terror warning which means that according to them a terrorist attack is likely, so with that heighten ed threat level, and ramadan and tension between them and the government, and so this is coming at a very, very critical juncture. as we are hearing it, it sounds again, if we are thinking about we discount perhaps at this

point that it was a drunk driver or traditional traffic accident, and going towards the sort of the attacks scenario, then there is really the lone wolf or the direct attack. if it is a direct attack, because we are under the heightened security, and one would imagine that it involves a heig heightened intelligence collection and very heavy police presence with the direct attack which is important to note that it is coming with the infrasucture and coming with renting a van, and money change, and all of those things are detectable. and so when you have a information service like that in the uk, you would think that a direct attack especially in the heightened threat scenario, this is something they would be looking for in the direct attack, and because there was not a threat there, it does lend credibility, and i want to be careful in saying this, but it is lending credibility that it is not a directed attack, and in fact, perhaps it could have been something that we would have assign ed

assigned to to be the lone wolf. now, the initial reportings as to, you know, this is not eye ses, and again, the fact pattern is such that if one -- this is not isis, and again, the fact pattern is such that if this is mass casualties, the similarities begin to depart. for example, we have learned now that it seems likely that one of the perpetrators was taken alive in custody, and that is not something that tends to happen with the previous attacks. so even though there is a vehicle connection, and similarity, but when you are laying out the other pieces, it sooms quite a few difference, and that is important when looking at this. >> any thought to be had here, and i was bringing up ramadan in the last ten days, and anything in the calendar that i sauce th -- that says that there might be heightened concern or anything in the dijeous sphere as we

think that it is terror-related, that is one thing to consider? >> well, yeah, i know that a layman would be right in guessing that attacks previous to this were leading up to the election in the uk. that is a logical assumption, and one that can be backed fairly confidently, and one the election has passed and while the terror threat level remains incredibly high, and second high nest the uk that it account be, i think that the once the election has passed from what i am hearing is that the concerns are ebbed a little bit. this clearly cght eryone off guard, and in regards to ramadan, and yes, it is clearly an odd connection. i don't know if one u would say that this is ramadan-connected to sort of jihadi attacks and necessarily there, but clearly what we have here, richard, a

target of opportunity. we have heard this term soft target, and it seems that this is primarily just a group of people who have assembled that provided a potentially an easily available target to find, and that may have been the commonality, soft targets, and large groups of people and low levels of defense and completely surprised i have to say. that is perhaps the commonality more than ramadan per se. >> and naveed jamali, thank you, sir. jim cavenaugh, if you are still with us, i wanted to ask you this, as you have been looking at the pictures of the casualties, and that is what this community could be very concerned about, as i mentioned earlier to liucy, these might b folks they know. i have been watching some of the picture pictures there that, okay, we are getting this in that reuters, that london police say that one dead in the incident, and that is according to reuters and now nbc news is confirming that london police say one dead

in the incident, and this is what you and i have been watching as we get new pictures, and what we are doing is to put it in so that the viewers can see what happened. as you have been looking at the pictures of not only the stretchers of the pieces of blue cloth on the ground, and it would appear to be over individuals in this picture h e here, and others being wheeled away with what appears to be oxygen. what is some of the takeaways that you have had in seeing those? >> just that it is a homicide crime scene is what it looks like, and looked like to us earlier, and now it is confirmed by the met that they have at least one fatality there and they spligt more, you know, it is just -- there is a lot of things to -- a lot of things to look at this, and you know, we talk about the terrorism threat level in england is elevated. the revenge threat level in england is elevated, too, and

nobody talks about that as mucher or thinks about that as much, but when you have a tempo on the heels of those three heel, manchester, london bridge and westminster, and there is an element in the society that can seek revenge on a commune tie wrongfully, but they can do it. and this van is not looking like it is parked in the finsbury mosque, but down the street a little bit. i don't know how many feet, richard, but a few hundred feet away, and it might have driven into a group of people who appeared dressed in traditional muslim garb. that wouldn't to me necessarily indicate it was isis-inspired or al qaeda inspired, and not necessarily. >> jim, i wanted to get this piece of data to you and the viewers as well, and you and i have been saying where are the new developments that would help us to understand what has happen happen happened. now, nbc news confirming that one dead and at least eight

injured, according to the london police. one dead, and at least eight injured, jim. >> yeah, that is awful. we heard from the witness seven people, so at least the numbers are staying in that low range below ten which is horrible to say anyway, but it is a horrible act. it is just that, you know, it could be a al qaeda, isis death-cult inspired, but if they wanted to go to the finsbury mosque, they could have gone stronger, so i am not cop totally convinced that it is in play, and maybe it is, but the revenge factor in england is high, and we could have a local extremists preying on the muslim community as well. that has to be open door until we get the answer. we can't from here, you and i, richard, we can't rule out medical or drunken driver.

although there are witnesses who say it looked like it was purposeful, and ari had a witness on earlier that read the script of the witnesses transcript on air there, and the witness said that he heard thump, and then the screech, and the thump and then the screech. that means that the vehicle hit something, and likely a pedestrian or a lamp post or garbage bin or something, and hit something before the braks s were hit h. in a traffic accident, that is significant if someone hits or assault if someone hits the brakes first, it means they are not trying to hit the item or the person or rather than i hit the person and then the brakes. so is it dleliberate, witnesses believe they have driven into the crowd of people, and it is consistent where it is seven, a small group of people injured and killed. so, it is an important night for london to get the answers out. you know, information is the key to keeping people calm and